tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post3871388680033436463..comments2024-01-08T14:21:37.465-08:00Comments on Infinite Art Tournament: The Reading List: The Scarlet LetterMichael5000http://www.blogger.com/profile/10148584819327475239noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-110573472415540482009-10-27T16:11:44.334-07:002009-10-27T16:11:44.334-07:00@A.R.: Thanks for stopping by. I think the notion...<b>@A.R.: Thanks for stopping by. I think the notion of SL being "about symbols" might have helped me find more interest in it. It also makes me wonder if the semiotics crowd ever payed special attention to it.<br /><br />It's true, it's tough to beat Jane Austen's for precise observations of how people think and act. But at the same time, the restricted social world that her characters move in is something of a hothouse setting. I feel that many subsequent writers, not even necessarily the best of them, have brought back deeper [a word for which, even as I use it, I hate myself for using] insights by taking their characters out of the lab and into the wider world.<br /><br />As for the Introduction, I habitually avoid forewords on the way in because I am stubborn and don't like to have my opinion colored in advance. In this case I wasn't inclined, having read the back cover, to read the Introduction afterwards, either.</b>Michael5000https://www.blogger.com/profile/10148584819327475239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-2582508883803304912009-10-26T15:56:03.752-07:002009-10-26T15:56:03.752-07:00Mark van Doren thought that The Scarlet Letter was...<a href="http://wutheringexpectations.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-am-i-supposed-to-hate-scarlet.html" rel="nofollow">Mark van Doren</a> thought that <i>The Scarlet Letter</i> was valuabvle exactly because of Hawthorne's insightful understanding of Puritanism, so there's precedent, however preposterous. That Kazin stuff is insane. Is it better in context?<br /><br />Are you sure you want to dismiss Hawthorne's psychological understanding because it's not the equal of Jane Austen's? Because that wipes out pretty much everyone who came after her! Who's left standing - Tolstoy, maybe Proust?<br /><br />Hawthorne's characters are psychological <i>reduced</i>, like a wine sauce. A lot of their humanity has been boiled away, so they're not quite real anymore, but what's left is concentrated.<br /><br />The plot, similarly. There are so few episodes, but the big ones (Chapter 12, on the pillory, or the forest scene) are packed with meaning.<br /><br />One more thing - it's a little too easy to talk about symbolism in <i>The Scarlet Letter</i>. The novel is actually <i>about</i> symbols, and the meanings we attach to them. So there are at least a couple of layers to work with, one for the high school students, a more complex one for later.Amateur Reader (Tom)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13675275555757408496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-35240128582915986422009-10-26T14:14:59.092-07:002009-10-26T14:14:59.092-07:00@Mrs5000 -- yes, Jane Austen camp for me! Sparklin...@Mrs5000 -- yes, Jane Austen camp for me! Sparkling over brooding any day.fingerstothebonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09410312376236327398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-78031273581026285422009-10-25T19:39:29.192-07:002009-10-25T19:39:29.192-07:00I think you said it in your post somewhere ... the...I think you said it in your post somewhere ... the part about making commentary about Pilgrims or soemthing. Yeah...that's it. I read for my own enjoyment and I don't think classics have to be boring. well-written = well-written. Good story = good story. Perhaps this was the first of a kind for a certain type of book.Jennershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08044537551139633301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-89978148116958834482009-10-24T17:07:39.287-07:002009-10-24T17:07:39.287-07:00It looks like frequently L&TM5K reader Jennife...<b>It looks like frequently L&TM5K reader Jennifer has written <a href="http://writenews.wordpress.com/2009/10/24/writing-prompt-the-scarlet-letter/" rel="nofollow">a whole post of her own</a> in response to this post.<br /><br />@fingers: In my life, anyway, <i>Wuthering Heights</i> was more of a university thing than a junior high thing. I liked it a lot, but it was the only fiction in my diet at the time so it may have had some positive bias. (Just as an aside, it's hard to imagine you in remedial anything.)</b>Michael5000https://www.blogger.com/profile/10148584819327475239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-24237640477228256322009-10-24T14:59:44.617-07:002009-10-24T14:59:44.617-07:00I like his short stories better because they do hi...I like his short stories better because they do highlight what he did so well. The Scarlet Letter is a drawn out version. I hated it in high school but loved it later when I was a sophomore in college. It's one of those books where a body can finally use some of analytical skills and not just read about others doing it. All the excitement of finding things in it does overpower the objectivity a bit.<br /><br />There are good drinking games with Hawthorne and symbolism but they don't play as well with this book. You can get wasted on Ethan Brand though. Just saying.<br /><br />Your Chillingworth description made me laugh.boohttp://www.booalready.com/?page_id=24noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-82772621369429371482009-10-24T10:30:56.229-07:002009-10-24T10:30:56.229-07:00@fingers: I can't remember much about Wutherin...@fingers: I can't remember much about Wuthering Heights, except that "tedious" and "odious" certainly ring a bell. I liked Jane Eyre, so concluded that Charlotte was the truly deserving sister of the Brontes. It's easy to imagine you in the Jane Austen camp (bustling and campy camp though it seems these days).mrs.5000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-12981120776318565032009-10-24T09:15:14.261-07:002009-10-24T09:15:14.261-07:00I, um, responded to this thread a little more thor...I, um, responded to this thread a little more thoroughly than would actually probably be polite to post as a comment, so anybody so inclined can check it out elsewhere: <a rel="nofollow">http://writenews.wordpress.com/2009/10/24/writing-prompt-the-scarlet-letter/</a>.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09075041892999096779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-66018550968216460312009-10-24T07:15:48.324-07:002009-10-24T07:15:48.324-07:00jane austen had 'good' insight into the hu...jane austen had 'good' insight into the human condition? i agree with fingers. very tedious. but i didn't really like 'scarlet letter' either.dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06769697352301199658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-4278656067335703072009-10-24T04:57:28.608-07:002009-10-24T04:57:28.608-07:00I heartily agree with you about Moby Dick. Once up...I heartily agree with you about Moby Dick. Once upon a time I made a list of classic works of literature that everyone alludes to, and tried to read them, but that plan ground to a halt with Moby Dick. <br /><br />I submit that The Scarlet Letter (which I haven't read either) did so well because it was about sex. It's only about implied sex, but you had to take what you could get in the 19th century. The most interesting thing you've told me about the book is the idea of the poorly kept secret that you are never told, just know. It sounds like it could be worked into that sophomoric essay as a metaphor for Puritan society.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-34133957207451076372009-10-24T00:41:35.219-07:002009-10-24T00:41:35.219-07:00Fingers-etc.
WUthering Heights was never required...Fingers-etc.<br /><br />WUthering Heights was never required reading, but a lot of 8th grade girls did read it in my day. Now--doubt anyone does! It is a "Gothic" novel, written of course by a very sheltered and uninformed young woman. _Jane Eyre,_ however has some painfully realistic portrayals of the boarding schools endured by the Bronte sisters (and of the tasks and dreams of being governess, one of the few gainful employments open to young women of "good family.") I think WHts could be considered the "Endless Love" of its time.....Elainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13195458656221202202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-82023721168328735562009-10-23T22:59:17.279-07:002009-10-23T22:59:17.279-07:00I haven't read The Scarlet Letter (I was alway...I haven't read The Scarlet Letter (I was always in remedial English in HS), but I am just now reading Wuthering Heights (I didn't go to JHS in this country, so missed this one too). I have to say that I find both Catherine and Heathcliff rather tedious and odious and do not care much for their brand of passion or romance. I hope it all ends soon.<br /><br />Ah yeah, and the above spam does appear to be from Taiwan. Again.fingerstothebonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09410312376236327398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-21851026479706964842009-10-23T19:51:59.678-07:002009-10-23T19:51:59.678-07:00The Scarlet Letter kinda failed to grab me when we...The Scarlet Letter kinda failed to grab me when we read it in high school and when I listened to it on tape this summer. I can't say I DISliked it. Rebel's word "overwrought" intrigues me, because it seems overwrought and underwrought at the same time. Makes me think of that lost pasttime, tableaux vivants, those carefully composed but motionless scenes people apparently once found so compelling.mrs.5000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-20619411980024694692009-10-23T13:19:03.360-07:002009-10-23T13:19:03.360-07:00Keep in mind that Nathaniel's forebear, Judge ...Keep in mind that Nathaniel's forebear, Judge Hathorne (Natty added the W himself) presided at the Salem witch trials....a grisly chapter in the history of the Puritan movement and Massachusetts colonies, not to mention family heritage. Nathaniel Hawthorne, therefore, was very concerned with guilt, shame, and the effects these have. Hester's career--detailed at the end, not illustrated in prose during the narrative--included her caring for and counseling many troubled souls, partly because her "sin" made her approachable, and her suffering had made her sympathetic. The "Scarlet Letter" became part of the family's coat of arms and a symbol of pride--hardly what had originally been the intent. <br /><br />I think this novel is usefully read in company-- with a good leader/teacher--but otherwise is not going to be valued. However, aside from that....it's a significant work of American Literature, and you HAVE TO read it, dammit! or you ain't educated. Or so i was told.Elainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13195458656221202202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-70571526630541561982009-10-23T07:22:44.273-07:002009-10-23T07:22:44.273-07:00Gotta disagree with Calico Cat - the movie version...Gotta disagree with Calico Cat - the movie version (at least the version with Demi Moore from sometime in the mid-90s) sticks in my head as one of my least-favorite movies that I've ever seen. Maybe there's other good versions out there...DrSchnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428753570121627382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-55028588316823717532009-10-23T06:11:04.442-07:002009-10-23T06:11:04.442-07:00It's made a hell of a good movie though... (I ...It's made a hell of a good movie though... (I have never even attempted to read it.)The Calico Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06319271181930512880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10779294.post-52163202786614327262009-10-23T04:50:25.984-07:002009-10-23T04:50:25.984-07:00yeah..... you are forbidden from reading Gone with...yeah..... you are forbidden from reading Gone with the Wind - you just won't get it.<br /><br />I wasn't overly thrilled with the Scarlet Letter, but it is a story that stuck with me well after I read it, and I believe I went back and read it a second time long after HS. But I like emotional, "overwrought" if you will, psychological novels.Rebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12835352917180439099noreply@blogger.com